Covid Testing

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
08/11/2020 at 17:31 • Filed to: coronavirus

Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced today that results from Covid testing will be reported in different ways based on what test was used.

Gov. Abbott said those who test positive to a rapid test, known as an antigen test which show results in 15 minutes, won’t be labeled as COVID-19 positive in the state’s eye. They’ll be considered COVID-19 probable. He said only people who take the PCR test, what the state has used from the start with the long cotton swabs given nasally, and test positive will be labeled as such.

“Only someone who goes through a viral COVID-19 test, and tests positive, will be categorized as a person who tests positive for COVID-19,” Gov. Abbott said. It was unclear how people who tested positive in rapid testing situations would then be considered positive without having to take another test.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Is the antigen test less reliable than the nose test? I can’t help but get the feeling that this is a way to keep the positive numbers from going up simply by deciding which data to use. The state recently changed the way it reports Covid deaths, basing it solely on the death certificate and whether or not the doctor specifically wrote “covid” on the certificate.

Maybe this is good science, but the cynical side of me feels like it’s all about controlling the numbers to make things look better than they are.

DISCUSSION (36)

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 17:39

Yeah seems a bit fishy. But hey just when you thought Sturgis couldn’t get any worse, Smash Mouth played for a packed crowd with no masks! And by worse I mean having to listen to Smash Mouth.

Kinja'd!!!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 17:42

Was there an issue with them double-counting a positive case?

Do those who get the rapid test then get the other test?

InFierority Complex > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
08/11/2020 at 17:42

Well, he ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > InFierority Complex
08/11/2020 at 17:43

Is that a lyric reference? I may remember that from my ears being assaulted watching Shrek.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
08/11/2020 at 17:44

No stars

Nom De Plume > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 17:45

This has nothing to do with Texas. It is how the numbers are being tracked nationally by the CDC.

InFierority Complex > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
08/11/2020 at 17:46

It is. It’s from their one and only song, All Stars.

Nom De Plume > Nom De Plume
08/11/2020 at 17:47

Appears they are mid-update right now so many states display “N/A” currently. Just pick one with all three columns filled in as an example.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > InFierority Complex
08/11/2020 at 17:48

Oh yes, unfortunately that has jogged my memory. They are like the Hootie and the Blowfish of that generation.

For Sweden > Nom De Plume
08/11/2020 at 17:50

A server I use was recently stuck in a mid-update state , so I understand the confus ion .

dumpsterfire! > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 17:52

The rapid antigen test means you were infected in the last 3 months or so, enough to create an immune response. When my hospital started the rapid antigen test, we did confirmatory PCR tests.

Beefchips > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 17:55

You got me curious so I looked it up.

The main difference according to the FDA is that the antigen test is more likely to report a false negative than a PCR-based test. However, if you test positive there is no need for confirmation by a PCR-based test.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/coronavirus-testing-basics

PCR has 98% sensitivity (2% false negative) and nearly perfect selectivity while antigen have typically sensitivities between 50 and 90%. As of May we had 80% sensitivity tests commercially available and improvements to 90% were on the immediate horizon.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/coronavirus-antigen-tests-quick-and-cheap-too-often-wrong

I didn’t find any information in a quick google search about how selective the antibody tests are. In principle, they could indicate infiction with a different coronavirus, of which there are many types that share many basic proteins. However — given that there is only one coronavirus in pandemic state around the world right now, I would personally be inclined to treat a positive antigen test as diagnostic.

T here still may be a good reasons to break out the data. It can help epidemiologists to get a more accurate estimate of the true infection rate, for example, if they know that, say, 50% of the tests administered were antigen tests and of these there are 10% false negative. But maybe I’m giving the governor too much of a benefit of the doubt there.

Beefchips > dumpsterfire!
08/11/2020 at 18:06

Interesting , was that antigen or antibody test that indicated infection in the last 3 months? I knew that the antibodies hung around that long. Didn’t know that about antigens.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
08/11/2020 at 18:16

That’s an insult to use hoodie and blowfish in the same sentence

dumpsterfire! > Beefchips
08/11/2020 at 18:17

You are correct. I should have double checked my post. Antigen test detects current virus proteins. Initially it was a multi day test, then we got rapid tests. The antibody tests previous infection. I hate it when I muddy the waters.

ttyymmnn > Beefchips
08/11/2020 at 18:24

Yes, this was my thought as well. The Austin Symphony (where I play) is trying to get back onstage for virtual performances, and they are hoping to do the rapid finger prick test each time we show up at the hall. Knowing somebody was sick three months ago would be useless.

wkiernan > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 18:24

What’s the practical effect of this? E.g., a re they planning on denying unemployment compensation if you only took the cheap test?

ttyymmnn > Beefchips
08/11/2020 at 18:25

Thanks.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/11/2020 at 18:25

I don’t know. If I got a positive in a rapid test, I would assume I have it, but then follow up with a swab. Then I’d probably be over it by the time the swab test came back.

ttyymmnn > wkiernan
08/11/2020 at 18:29

I have no idea, but your take is even more cynical than mine. There are some good responses in this thread. Apparently it’s a CDC thing.

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn
08/11/2020 at 18:38

My brother has a bad enough fever and suffering with flu like symptoms that obviously his employer asked him to go to the clinic. Clinic obviously didn’t want to take him in because he needs to take a Covid test. He did the nose one and it came back negative. Clinic said, “those always have errors all the time and you don’t have any respiratory symptoms. You can just stay home and tre at your symptoms or take another test.” He goes to do the same test again and it comes back negative again. Clinic says, “well, that just means it’s not in your lungs. Go take the other $115-ish rapid test” He does and it comes back negative. Clinic says, “we can’t see you because those tests are wrong all the time as well. Stay home and treat your symptoms” My brother now at 102 degree fever and 15 lbs lost since being real ly sick for the last 2 weeks is pretty ticked off to say the least. He’s had the flu all the time, pretty much every year because of his 2 elementary school son’s never fail to bring it home in November . But, he has never been sick for more than 2 or 3 days. He has never felt this bad for this long. Being Texas, none of his workmates believe in covid and joke about it all the time. He takes precautions but ina huge office full of typical Texan, nobody else is taking any measures. As of now, 2 of his older coworkers have died from Covid. His work o ffice though is still running and has never shut down. WTF with shit and stuff! Fuckin bullshit with everything! He is miserable but staying isolated in his home office making sure his wife and kids don’t get near him.

ttyymmnn > EL_ULY
08/11/2020 at 18:45

Damn, that’s tough. I hope he feels better soon. We’ve been fortunate that my wife has been WFH since March. I have had one gig since March, but the symphony is going to start doing virtual concerts in three weeks, with tons of testing, distancing, shields, improved air flow, all of it. Probably going to be as safe as it can be. I’ve been tested twice with the nose swab. Both came back negative, but I didn’t really have reason to believe I was sick. We’re also fortunate that here in Austin mask compliance is actually pretty good.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > EL_ULY
08/11/2020 at 19:04

Thats horrendous

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > EL_ULY
08/11/2020 at 19:38

Wow thats horrible, hope your brother starts feeling better soon. Is his family feeling OK? Is he isolating himself?

If his coworkers don’t believe in COVID what do they think their 2 coworkers died of? The mid-summer flu?

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > Beefchips
08/11/2020 at 20:26

The second link is pretty helpful with some percentages for false positives and false negatives. However I don’t get the sense from it that they are the final answer. Maybe for the antibody test.

Until they do have a really good accounting of the rates it’s not really science we are following it’s some common sense and our best guess. When they do have the rates they can follow what happened and get a better idea of how the virus was transmitted and what worked and what didn’t. Until then we are going to continue to walk around in the dark somewhat and bang into some walls. With that people will continue to get sick and unfortunately more will die.

The politicians are in an unwinnable situation. With insufficient data they are going to make the wrong decisions. Eventually there will be enough data and all the decisions, both agg ressive and liberal, are going to be shown to be less than perfect. I’m not normally sympathetic to the power hungry dirt bags, but in this case they are making decisions that end up killing people or taking away people’s livelihood or rearranging people’s lives and without a crystal ball I don’t think they can know a good decision from a bad one.

Longer term learnin g and understanding of the data however will make them regret mo st of those decisions.

BigBlock440 > EL_ULY
08/11/2020 at 20:38

He’s had the flu all the time, pretty much every year because of his 2 elementary school son’s never fail to bring it home in November. But, he has never been sick for more than 2 or 3 days. He has never felt this bad for this long.

Has he ever actually tested positive for the flu? Because that usually puts you down for a week or two, if it’s only 2 or 3 days, it’s usually something else. The f lu is rough.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
08/12/2020 at 09:22

Right, and plenty of people have to test multiple times before going back to work. Say someone test positive twice and then negative once. I don’t think they’re tracking per person, just individual tests, so that gets counted as 3 tests in the numbers we’re seeing (and skews the positivity rate as well).

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/12/2020 at 09:26

Interesting thought.

EL_ULY > BigBlock440
08/12/2020 at 09:41

He is one healthy mofo. If it’s not one of the kids that gets him it’s a coworker. By then, everyone else in the office is out for a week. That is typical where I am as well. Never fails foos take a week off to battle it. November is going to be a bitch

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
08/12/2020 at 09:42

Just like all the headlines with the kids’ positives going way up - you just have to think through it. With kids getting back into sports & classrooms, as soon as one kid/teacher/parent has it, or is even just exposed to someone who has it, there’s a high likelihood that whole families, classes, even schools get tested after that that wouldn’t have otherwise, even if no one is showing symptoms. Some percentage of those tested will show up positive, because this is a highly contagious virus that’s working it’s way through the population. We can’t stop it; we can only slow it. So, the headlines are scary, making people think things are somehow spinning out of control. (Granted, it is seemingly out of control in some areas, looking at positivity rates. )

I honestly don’t know what the right solution is for kids. I can see the positives and negatives on both sides. I think the key is that we have to isolate and protect those who really are at higher risk (elderly and immuno-compromised), but we also have to find a way to live with this virus in our midst, with a healthy respect for it, taking all due precautions, with an understanding of the risks, and with respect for those just trying to make the best decisions for themselves and their family.

EL_ULY > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
08/12/2020 at 09:48

Texans are hard-headed. According to my brother, little to nobody even went to the funeral services because of their deadlines for a certain oil and gas company they had the whole staff trying to meet.

My b ro is able to work from home thankfully. He's making all efforts to keep away from everyone else. The biggest issue for him that i totally understand is correcting his coworker’s errors before they get processed haha. I was overseas around this time last year for work and there was so many error s that I know i could’ve prevented if I’d just be physically there.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/12/2020 at 10:14

If 100% of the country had this mindset, we’d have licked this thing, or at least have enough of a handle on to live a reasonably normal life.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn
08/12/2020 at 10:21

What’s really made it worse here in the States than elsewhere is our selfishness... And we’ve been shown the way by our narcissist-in-chief.

Beefchips > John Norris (AngryDrifter)
08/12/2020 at 11:12

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Totally. That article is from May and people have been working round the clock on these things since then.

BigBlock440 > EL_ULY
08/12/2020 at 13:02

So is that a no? I’m not sure I’ve ever had the flu, but I’ve seen family members get it. L ast year when my wife and kids were down for a week-ish one of them was tested for it and it was negative. A lot of people claim they have the f lu without getting tested, but they probably don’t, and probably one of the reasons people take the flu so lightly. Typically, a week or less I think it’s assumed to be a cold, longer that that they’d start to suspect a flu, at least according to doctors here.

Only Vespas... > ttyymmnn
08/14/2020 at 21:54

Wow. Texas is on fire and the Guv is fiddling. It is what it is.